Washington Post: Obama & Edwards, hypocrites on lobbyists donations

Wow, Washington Post is on a roll. Finally MSM is calling out those two hypocrites on a variety of issues.

Yesterday was an editorial article demolishing Obama's hypocricy on Iran.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2007/10/20/AR2007102000984. html
A Difference on Iran?


In fact the two leading Democratic candidates have advocated pretty much the same policy for Iran, just as they have for Iraq. In the case of Iran, the strategy is, for the most part, centrist and sensible and doesn't differ much from what the Bush administration is doing. Now, trailing in the polls and sensing a political opportunity, Mr. Obama is trying to portray Ms. Clinton as a reckless saber-rattler. That is irresponsible and -- given the ease with which the charge can be rebutted -- probably naive, as well.

Today is some facts check on Obama & Edwards' connection to lobbysts.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2007/10/obama_edwards_and_the_lobbyi ng.html
Obama, Edwards, and the Lobbying Industry


Exhibit A in the drive by both Obama and Edwards to "clean up" Washington is their refusal to accept "a dime" from "Washington lobbyists."But it turns out that both Edwards and Obama have adopted a narrow definition of the word lobbyist, which raises questions about the effectiveness of their campaign.

They still take money from state lobbyists.

They make no attempt to distinguish between lobbyists for big corporations and lobbyists for small non-profits. They treat a lobbyist for Haliburton in the same way as a lobbyist for child poverty or cancer research.

They accept money from former lobbyists and future lobbyists.

As Clinton has pointed out, her rivals have no problem taking money from the people who pay the lobbyists, and give them their "marching orders." (ABC News debate, August 19, 2007.)

They have no problem about taking money from people representing other "special interests," e.g. trial lawyers and the hedge fund industry

Numbers!


So far this year, according to Opensecrets.org, Edwards has taken more than $8 million from lawyers and law firms, some of whom employ the federally-registered lobbyists whose lucre he refuses to touch. Obama is not far behind: $7.5 million.

Obama has emphasized that he does not take money from PhRMA, the powerful lobbying arm of the pharmaceutical industry. On the other hand, he does not seem to mind taking money from senior employees of PhRMA members, such as Pfizer and Eli Lilly. Campaign finance records show that he has raised about $250,000 in pharmaceutical-related contributions this year. (Clinton collected $269,000.) He has also not been averse to helping out Illinois-based pharmaceutical companies with "tariff suspensions."

Nor does refusing to accept money from federal lobbyists prevent the Obama and Edwards campaigns from accepting in-kind contributions from registered lobbyists in the form of volunteer work. See this Roll Call article. My colleague, Matt Mosk, recently reported that the Obama campaign is hiring a top lobbyist, Moses Mercado, as a senior adviser. Mercado's accounts with the Ogilvy Government Relations lobbyist group included Pfizer, United Health Group, and the Blackstone Group, which paid millions of dollars to Ogilvy to defeat proposals for doubling taxes paid by private equity managers. Mercado has said he will take a "leave of absence" from Ogilvy in order to work for Obama.

In the meantime, the Obama campaign returned a $250 contribution from a small-time federal lobbyist named Gigi Sohn, who works for a non-profit organization called Public Knowledge that advocates digital consumer rights. Sohn has, however, been permitted to help the campaign as a volunteer. In an interview with Roll Call, Sohn described Obama's position on lobbyists as "absurd." She said that the loopholes in the anti-lobbyist campaign were "big enough to drive a truck through."

NYT detailed Edwards' outrageous behavior of accepting in-kind contributions by taking advantage of the loopholes of campaign financing laws. The amount of money he accepted is eye-opening. This is pretty corrupt behavior, IMHO.


John Edwards, who raised $7.1 million for the quarter but spent $8.2 million, was spending at a rate of $1.17 for every dollar raised in the third quarter.

One big savings for Mr. Edwards is his use of the private jet of Fred Baron, a trial attorney, who is allowed to charge the campaign discount rates. Mr. Edwards paid Mr. Baron $234,000 for the use of his jet. Mrs. Clinton used chartered jets, which cost more, and paid $1 million. "



Display:


Fair use standard and copyright (2.00 / 1)

Others have already told you this, but you legally can't just cut and paste virtually an entire article like that. You should quote just small pieces of it and write your own thoughts about that. You invite legal problems for yourself and the site.


by Quinton on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:11:15 PM EST

Re: Fair use standard and copyright (1.00 / 1)

Which one I quoted is the 'entire article'? I guess I should leave all those facts and numbers out to satisfy your desire to hide?


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair use standard and copyright (none / 0)

This is complete BS.  areyouready gave full credit and a link to the articles she cited.

I've read numerous diaries that have cut-and-pasted an entire article.

Almost every blog I've been is doing exactly what the diarist did.

Of all things to attack areyouready on.


by FilbertSF on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair use standard and copyright (none / 0)

As I understand it even if credit is given you're still only supposed to quote a small selection from the text rather than large chunks. Nevermind.


by Quinton on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair use standard and copyright (2.00 / 1)

The law says no more than 350 words under fair use. Net etiquette and standards of decency say you use what you need to support your own thoughts.

Anyway, what I'm interested in -- areyouready has made clear that she or he hates Edwards, Obama and all other Democrats who aren't HRC. So the question is, are you opposed to republicans more?

Like Matt Stoller, the question about you is when was the last time you criticized a republican with the same ferocity you attack Edwards?


by desmoulins on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:20:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair use standard and copyright (none / 0)

he's actualy right  in terms of the law as understand it. fair use only goes so far.


by bruh21 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 05:12:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fair use standard and copyright (none / 0)

They do that a lot when they don't like the article and can't 0 rate it to hide it.


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 05:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Washington Post: (none / 0)

Obama and Edwards are both hypocrites on the issue of lobbyists and special interests.  Hillary needs to call them out on this.


The Facts: Please Read
by Regan on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:15:44 PM EST

Re: Washington Post: (none / 0)

The naysayers just cannot handle the truth, so they attack areyouready.  Keep on posting the truth areyouready.


African-american for Hillary 2008
by terrondt on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, I agree (none / 0)

What will the Repukeliscum do without the oppo research and points generated by this Hillarybot and the rest?


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:50:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Washington Post: (none / 0)

Have you seen their poll numbers?  Most people already know.


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 05:48:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Private jets (1.00 / 1)

The private jets vs. chartered jets is extremely eye-opening.

Both Clinton and Obama decided from the beginning to use chartered jets instead of taking advantage of a loophole in campaign financing laws. On the other hand, Edwards and almost all GOP candidates had been using their buddies' private jets at an astonishing low rates.

Look at those numbers. Just one quarter, Clinton had to outspend Edwards by almost $700,000 in expenses associated with Chartered Jets.

This is pure corruption.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:31:09 PM EST

b.s (1.50 / 2)

Who cares what jets corrupt Edwards is flying on. The real gem is that he paid far far less on his buddy's jets than market rates.

This is pure corruption.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:46:17 PM EST

Re: b.s (2.00 / 1)

Have you read the interview with Chung Seto , you know the woman in the la times story . If you read it you will see how low journalism has become in this country and the blatant race baiting by the la times reporters.

http://www.observer.com/2007/chung-seto- hillary-story-welcome-chinatown-l-times# comments


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (2.00 / 1)

Correct, the comment is BS.  I don't understand why it is problem to rent a jet from a friend and reinburse him for the use of the jet.  That's corruption?  That's good business. That's also playing the game properly, unlike what Congress has been doing for awhile.   Edwards is keeping a real budget for the campaign instead of having to go shake federal lobbyist trees and soliciting KBR, International Paper, all big special interest groups and being dishonest about rural Americans at a lunch bag held by one of the biggest polluters, Monsanto.  I would say the fact checker needs to do more homework, and so does this commenter.  Instead we see insipid comments that anyone who debunks Clinton is a sexist. The majority of us are very progressive, including Edwards so to make comments that Edwards supporter or some newspaper (that tends to be neutral) is sexist/racist is untrue.  


by benny06 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 02:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (none / 0)


I don't understand why it is problem to rent a jet from a friend and reinburse him for the use of the jet.  That's corruption.

You're completely dishonest. Edwards rented private jet from his buddy at a NOMINAL price for his campaign appearances. This was a big loophole in campaign fiancing law. The Congress passed an amendment to block this hole in August (??), so going foward, you won't see Edwards riding a coast-to-cast private jet at $1 anymore. It's going to hurt him tremedously.

To Obama and Clinton's credit, they decided not to take this advantage from the beginning in order to avoid bad publicity.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 03:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (none / 0)

And you have proof he rented for $1? Records show differently, commenter.  Once again, you talk out of thin air.


by benny06 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 07:04:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (none / 0)

Yeah, that was an exaggeration. He actually spent $800 per flight. Clinton and Obama spent $25,000.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 07:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (none / 0)

And your proof again?  It was more than that in the spring.


by benny06 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 07:32:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's some proof (none / 0)

I was curious also, so I looked around a little.  I Couldn;t find anything that detailed exatly how much Edwards paid per flight, but I did find several links that say he pays substantially less than Clinton and Obama.  Those two both opted to charter their flights to avoid the corporate jets and pay the much higher charter prices.  Edwards apparently pays the price for a first class ticket, which is typically between $600 and $1000 per person.

Link

Link


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's some proof (none / 0)

I read a report long time ago, but can't find the link. RJEVans' #s are correct, basically $800 vs $25,000, huge discrepancy.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (none / 0)

I'm sorry about that. Completely forgot I posted in this diary. Have to keep checking the Feedback. Anyway, someone already posted the proof, so there you go.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:33:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: b.s (none / 0)

But the point is, that flying on planes for cheaper than the price the rest of the public is going to receive, is a "gift" or donation.  I think it is a slippery slope if we start saying that's OK because the firm is a good cause.


by CVDem on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:35:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Old news (none / 0)

Obama already addressed the acceptance of state lobbyist money a long time ago. His exact words were "The lobbyists can have a seat at the table, but they don't get to buy every chair." If this represents journalism that's on the up-and-up, the WP should have caught on a long time ago. It's the MSM trying to play on people's ignorance with regard to an issue that Obama has spoken about openly and honestly (in the video below).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sex9-ctI1 PE

Watch and decide for yourself, instead of buying into biased bloggers and reporters' spin.

The Clinton supporters should think twice when it comes to throwing stones at Obama or Edwards when it comes to lobbyist money. They've written the book on that game and then some.

by PD1769 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:11:05 PM EST

Hillary Busted! (none / 0)

Talk about doing favors for contributors...Hillary is pretty crude about it. Clinton Dealt a Bummer

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and her Senate colleague Chuck Schumer thought they had safely placed a $1 million earmark for an upstate New York Woodstock Museum in a health and education appropriations bill

The museum, located in Bethel, New York on the site of the 1969 music festival, is the brainchild of billionaire Alan Gerry, a Republican who has donated heavily to both Clinton and to Senate Democratic coffers, which Schumer oversees.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:21:03 PM EST

Re: Hillary Busted! (none / 0)

are u insane?  They are senators for NY and the development of Upstate NY has been the focus of elected officials on all levels of government.  The Repugs specifically pointed this out to try to get Clinton on something,  Its absolutely ridiculous how repug attacks get adopted by the netroots as "gotcha politics".


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 02:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Busted! (none / 0)

It's a Washington Post News/Blog item not a 'repug attach'. Try following the link.


by JoeCoaster on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 03:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Busted! (none / 0)

'attack' -> 'attach'


by JoeCoaster on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 03:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bring On The Slime (none / 0)

Wow, this has apprarently gone over the head of areyouready, the W-Post and way too many commentors.

One of the reasons Obama disagreed with Kyl-Lieberman was that it called on Congress to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization.

Key word in that sentence: Congress. The S.970 bill that Obama (and Dodd, Kennedy, Kerry, Boxer and many other anti-war liberals) supported called on the State Department to designate the IRG a terrorist organization. Obama and others supported the bill (and opposed Kyl-Lieberman)because he has the judgment that Clinton continues to lack: it's the role of State, not Congress, to make that designation.

If anyone's a hypocrite on this issue, it's Clinton, who voted neocon on Iran (Kyl-Lieberman), then stepped back into the anti-war zone (Sen. Webb and her Iowa mailer). Why? Because her hawk maneuver went over like a fart in church with some antiwar voters, so she's doing damage control once again. No wonder she can't chose between the Cubs and the Yankees.

So the talk about S.970 being identical to Kyl-Lieberman needs to stop. They're about as similar as Carmen Electra and Roseanne.

Vote Who Sane '08!
by nafamabo on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:28:33 PM EST

Re: Bring On The Slime (none / 0)

How the hell did she vote neocon? Do you even know what neoconservative is?

Clinton voted in support that it is the sense of the Senate that the IRG should be listed as a terrorist organization for their disruptions in Iraq and Barack Obama said he agreed it should be listed as such. His problem was he thought it could lead to war with Iran.

Clinton also cosponsored the Webb Amendment which says the President must seek congressional approval before attacking Iran and said so as early as February of this year. She is not having it both ways, she is not being a hypocrite.

Being a hypocrite on the issue will be supporting the basic premise of the amendment while attacking another for also supporting it.

BTW, you just can't throw around the words "anti-war" and "hawk" whenever you feel like it. This issue is not about being anti-war or being a hawk, it's about dealing with Iran and having the proper leverage to engage them diplomatically.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bring On The Slime (2.00 / 1)

Not so fast on Clinton and Webb. I saw that one coming.

The fact is, Webb introduced his amendment back in March, and Clinton didn't have jack sh*t to say about it until after her Kyl-Lieberman vote became a problem for her.

Clinton used the Webb amendment strictly for damage control. She was in such a rush last month to belatedly co-sponsor Webb that she missed the opportunity to give Webb himself the courtesy of a heads-up that she was plastering her name on his amendment.

Don't believe me? Newsweek covered this here. And Hillary herself announced her co-sponsorship on October 1st, a week or so after her Kyl-Lieberman vote.

Again, it's about taking the whole story into consideration, not bits and pieces that make your candidate look like an innocent bystander.

Vote Who Sane '08!
by nafamabo on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 02:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bring On The Slime (none / 0)

Did you not read what I said. Clinton have said, even before Webb introduced his Amendment, that the President must seek congressional approval before attacking Iran.

Clinton is simply saying, she believe the IRG should be listed as a terrorist organization, but if the President wants to attack Iran, he needs congressional approval. That's it. No spin.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 03:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary-bots who work to help repukes (1.00 / 2)

Hillary is not going to get the nomination.  However, the Repukeliscum operatives will pick up all the oppo research they want by just reading anything written by one of these Hillary-bots.

Do you Hillary-bots actually work for Hillary, or are you fully paid by the repukeliscum?


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:47:42 PM EST

Re: Hillary-bots who work to help repukes (2.00 / 1)

Oh, so I guess all the "opposition" diaries and comments posted by TarHeel, rssrai, DerekLarsson, bruh21, borednow, and HillaryLieberman is acceptable, huh?

And here I thought they were being paid by their candidate. Foolish of me to think that.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary-bots are MORE fanatical (2.00 / 2)

I am not in favor of the overall style of attack diary found all too frequently on mydd.  I see that the Hillary-bots are just more fervent and fanatical.

I don't support attack diaries.  I think they suck.


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 02:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (1.00 / 1)

Does anyone here even take areyouready seriously anymore? At this point it's clear he's either a troll from one of the other Democratic candidates trying to make Hillary's campaign look bad or a Republican plant trying to demoralize Democrats. It's shameful, really, that that's the predominating discourse that MyDD's devolved to, instead of the positive candidate support by people like georgep and BigTentDemocrat.


by Zephyrus on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 03:40:08 PM EST

Richardson (none / 0)

Richardson ridicules Edwards on lobbyists' donations
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gNrYv Ai-WwpRBCdw1Ry9fxZ2as4QD8SDRBO80


Richardson said he would support some limits on lobbyists' contributions but said he disagrees with rival John Edwards, who has proposed banning lobbyists from donating to federal campaigns. Edwards also has urged the other candidates to join him in rejecting such money.

"Senator Edwards challenged us all to give back money from lobbyists," said Richardson, a former congressman and U.S. energy secretary. "I thought to myself, OK, I get contributions from the Sierra Club and League of Conservation Voters. I get money from senior citizen groups ... I get money from nurses and teachers. That's a lobbyist? In my book, those are good people. So you've got to be careful about the definitions."


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 04:02:37 PM EST

Re: Richardson (none / 0)

He's in this to be Hillary's running mate.  Too bad.  He could be elected senator.


Waiting for the Glorious Train Wreck.
by Rooktoven on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 05:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson (none / 0)

of course its a conspiracy/.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 06:50:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bullshit (1.00 / 1)

This is just a stupid as shit diary created to hit Obama and Edwards because the Clinton Iran thing is gaining some steam and won't go away. And seriously, the fact that a few here so quickly came to areyouready's defense demonstrates to me how completely stupid this diary really is. But stupid is as stupid does. That's what momma always says.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 04:32:18 PM EST

Re: Bullshit (2.00 / 2)

Why are you attacking areyouready?  Because he dared to post links to the WaPo articles?  

You have the links.  Your problem is you take issue with anyone who posts anything negative about Edwards/Obama.


by FilbertSF on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 05:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bullshit (none / 0)

No, you are wrong. Facts are facts and I follow the money.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 06:36:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Main difference (none / 0)

The differences between Hillary and Edwards/Obama in regard to lobbyists are simple. When Edwards and Obama revealed their rural policies to help family farmers, they went to rural communities, spoke with family farmers about their concerns and answered questions. When Clinton decided to do something rural, she decided to have a lobbyist luncheons in D.C. (last time I check D.C. was far from rural) with agribusiness giant Monsanto. That is the difference right there. Edwards/Obama listens to regular people concerns. Hillary listens to big corporation concerns. This shows how she will govern as President. She will put big corporation concerns above regular Americans. Next we will hear that Clinton wants to do increase small businesses and mom and pop stores so she will have a lobbyist luncheon with Wal-Mart. That is Hillary's logic right there. If you want to help regular Americans, then you have to cater and please big corporations.


by harmony94 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 04:53:28 PM EST

Clinton is Wrong (2.00 / 2)

It is truly sad to see presumably kindred spirits, Democrats, trying to confuse people and blowing smoke in diaries like this.

The progressive position on this is simple:  presidential candidates should NOT take money from Washington lobbyists. It is simple. It is easy.  It is progressive.  

And, it is exactly what the American people want. A recent Gallup poll found that 75% of Americans agree that it is unacceptable for a presidential candidate to take money from a Washington lobbyist. Let me repeat that: 75% of the American people believe it is unacceptable for a presidential candidate to take money from a Washington lobbyist.

Do you Clinton supporters disagree with 75% of America on this?  If so, then please explicitly say so.

The sad thing about Clinton supporters putting up smoke screens, and flashing the country with shiny tangential diversions (like other objectionable occupations?), is that Clinton supporters are actively hindering progress.  

I would respectfully suggest that Clinton supporters take a deep breath, pause for a moment, and think about what you are doing: you are advocating a retrogressive position that 75% of America finds unacceptable.

The better course of action, the progressive course of action, is to contact your candidate and suggest she change her position.  If enough pressure is applied, she can and she will change her mind.  If all three of the top candidates present a united front on this issue, the Democratic party will reap the rewards.  Seventy five percent of the the American people want it. And we Democrats should give it to them.  It is right there for us. Only Hillary Clinton stands in the way.


by Demo37 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 08:31:37 PM EST


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