[LA Times poll]: Clinton 48, Obama 17, Edwards 13

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-poll24oct24,0,2039684.story?page=1&coll=la-home-center Years as first lady propelling Clinton ahead, poll shows
Overall, the survey shows how much the Democratic race has solidified -- particularly now with the near-certainty that Vice President Al Gore will not join the field. In the June Times/Bloomberg poll in which Clinton held an 11-percentage point lead over Obama, Gore won support from 15% of Democrats. The survey found that Clinton, with support from 48% of Democrats, and Obama, with 17%, were followed by Edwards with 13%, and Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, with 2% each. Sen. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio and former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel drew less than 2% support. Some 15% did not make a selection.
As a leading actor in her husband's presidency, Clinton entered the race for the White House linked tightly to his legacy of personal scandal and political polarization. But today, the Times/Bloomberg poll found, nearly two-thirds of Democrats and nearly half of all voters say Hillary Clinton's famously unsuccessful effort in the 1990s to provide health coverage for all Americans makes her better able now to deal with healthcare as president. ... On healthcare, the poll findings suggest that Clinton has successfully turned one of her great failures as first lady into an advantage. Clinton often says she has the "bruises" to show from her hard-learned lessons on healthcare -- and 49% of voters say that her experience from the 1990s would help her reform healthcare as president. Only 19% say it would hurt her if she tried to tackle the issue again. "She's a person who learns from her mistakes," said poll respondent Gerard Aman, a retired government economist in McLean, Va.
Among all registered voters, the New York senator wins hypothetical head-to-head matchups against each of the four most high-profile Republican candidates. For example, Clinton tops Giuliani 47% to 41%, on the edge of the poll's margin of error. She beats the other GOP candidates by larger margins in the hypothetical contests.
Clinton's negative ratings have shifted significantly in recent months, other surveys show. The Gallup Poll, for example, reports that Clinton's unfavorable rating among all voters climbed to 52% in April from 40% in February, before falling this month to 44% -- the same rating as reported in the Times/Bloomberg poll.

Clinton draws big crowd in CO

Display:


ads dump (2.00 / 1)

WSJ is reporting Obama is ready to dump $10 million in TV ads alone in Iowa. Truly eye-opening.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB1 19310537420968005.html

As evidence that conventional political tactics have little effect on Iowa voters, Mr. Rasky, of the Biden campaign, noted that Mr. Obama's $3 million television buy did little to boost his poll numbers. In a state where $200,000 buys ads for the entire state, Mr. Rasky says Mr. Obama, who several operatives said has booked $10 million more in ads through the New Year, risks overkill. A spokesman for Mr. Obama declined to confirm the $10 million figure or provide another.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:50:31 PM EST

Re: ads dump (2.00 / 3)

Time for Axelrod & Plouffe to cash in on their commissions.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:53:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ads dump (2.00 / 1)

If he does spend $10 million on ads in Iowa, I gotta give him a kick in the ass. This is not the tri-state area.  $10 million in ads risks overexposure. It is overkill. He desperately needs to reshuffle his team. He has a chance, but come on.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ads dump (none / 0)

well he has enough money to burn.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ads dump (none / 0)

Doesn't mean he should spent it wildly. Out of all the early states, his best shot is South Carolina, followed with New Hampshire, then Iowa. His wife raised expectations in Iowa and then Obama himself said if he wins Iowa he will be the nominee, which means it is all or nothing.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ads dump (none / 0)

He has no prayer in New Hampshire:


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ads dump (2.00 / 1)

Ten million bucks on an ad morphing Hillary Clinton's face into George W. Bush.

Man, Iowans are going to get really sick of that.

Next up will be the Edwards campaign. Video of hooded KKK members entering the voting booth and voice-over asking Iowans to close their eyes and picture whether Clinton and Obama are "electable".


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:08:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ads dump (none / 0)

You have no proof that Hillary Clinton ordered the wiretaps. Absolutely none.

Your comments and diaries are growing increasingly trollish and does not help the discourse.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 09:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

For me that key in the above teaser is the fact that apparently Obama has dramatically lost support within the youth demographic.  We saw that in Rasmussen's Iowa poll the other day strongly, and it is not surprising that there appears to be a strong national trend.


by georgep on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:52:41 PM EST

Re: (none / 0)

Yeah that's what struck me. His youth support didn't just slide, it fricken plummeted. His novelty is apparently wearing off with the youth vote, and I don't think he does himself favors by playing it so safe all the time. All we hear from him is that he wants to bring a change in washington and that he was against the Iraq war from the start. Those same soundbites he's rolling over and over again. He political inexperience is showing a little bit, and Hillary is just looking more presidential.


by Christopher Lib on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 11:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing landscape in dem (none / 0)

Prediction

Clinton 48
Obama   19
Edwards 17


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:53:03 PM EST

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing landscape in dem (none / 0)

No, those are not the numbers, look, "Hillary Clinton close to lapping the field but Obama being challenged by John Edwards for second place.". It says "close to lapping".


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing landscape in dem (none / 0)

I figured 'lapping the field' meant the 50% mark.


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing landscape in dem (none / 0)

she'll be over 50 and i think obaba/edwards will be in the low to mid teens


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:19:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing landscape in dem (none / 0)

Obama**


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:19:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's new ad (2.00 / 1)

Another bland new ad to be put on air in NHfrom Obama campaign.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5fToUil 8k

What are those guys thinking?


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:56:15 PM EST

Re: Obama's new ad (none / 0)

That's a long-haul bio piece, which works against the "he's experienced" now, looking beyond '08.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:58:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's new ad (2.00 / 1)

It's actually the first ad he ran in Iowa. Next up should be the ad with Republican statehouse hacks in Illinois saying what a swell guy Obama is...particularly when he votes "present" on abortion bills.


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's new ad (none / 0)

In fairness, I should add that Obama would certainly have taken a strong stand for abortion rights if he hadn't voted "present". Just like his strong stands on Iraq and Iran.


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's new ad (none / 0)

I feel like I've seen this ad before ...


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's new ad (none / 0)

Maybe he ran this ad in Iowa before? His ads are all fuzzy...


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:02:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's new ad (none / 0)

Here is the IA ad, and yes, it's the same ad.


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

It looks like Matt Stoller is preparing some sort of strike against Clinton. Any guess?
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?dia ryId=2032


If any of you out there want to fund something against Hillary Clinton's campaign from the progressive side, I know of a good opportunity.  Email me for details if you're interested.

527? This is getting desperate. LOL>


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:08:24 PM EST

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

maybe we should e mail him and see what he has cooking.

giggle.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

I know. I know. They are going to do a YouTube video telling people that Clinton....are you ready for this....voted for the Iraq authorization bill back in 2002!


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

LOL.  Good one.


by reasonwarrior on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

obama hires hacks like axlerod and seeks the help of a bigot.  forget hillary beating him, he is beating himself. sad indeed.


African-american for Hillary 2008
by terrondt on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 07:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

What a tool.  He has that woman from the Obama 527 Hope posting over there on Open Left.  Is this coming from her?


by bookgrl on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

In all seriousness, whatever they do will prolly just add +2 to Clinton's aggregate ...


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:33:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 527 to lash out at Clinton? (none / 0)

Troll rated for intentionally calling someone a tool.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:16:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing landscape in dem (none / 0)

i cannot wait for the results!


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:34:10 PM EST

Moveon (none / 0)


Here is Matt Stoller's plan. Gosh, the gifts keep on coming. Moveon??? Is that the best way to cement Hillary position as a mainstream, level-headed politician?

MoveOn And Top Bloggers To Launch Campaign Pressuring Hillary And Obama To Back Dodd On FISA


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:37:12 PM EST

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

Does Stoller not realize that Clinton voted against the FISA bill in August? Here's a novel idea: spend money trying to pressure people who DON'T vote the way you want them to.

Doh!


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

This is getting desperate. If these big blogs, liberal elitists continue to push those frivolous stuff ordinary voters do not care, they render their relevance in the long run.

People care about jobs, healthcare, declining living standards, not some stupid FISA.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

I disagree.  It's one thing if it is just Kos and Stoller, and Bowers, but if it's all of them...that's not helpful to her.  She should just nip this in the bud.  


by bookgrl on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

Yeah, who cares about the Bill of Rights. I mean, who the hell do they think we are, the Democratic Party?


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (1.00 / 2)

When this nomination process is over and they poll who said the stupidest fucking thing in the blogosphere leading up to it, you will be remembered for this particular moment of mental flatulence in infamy. Your mother should be so proud.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

Troll rated for intentionally insulting a user.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

I think that Stoller realizes that Clinton will adopt whatever position is acceptable to Democrats and Republicans. She doesn't mind selling out her party if it makes her popular and makes her electable. She is malleable. No priniciples, No problem.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:20:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you have a link? (none / 0)

Frankly, Hillary should just support Dodd here and nip this in the bud.


by bookgrl on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (2.00 / 1)

I disagree. All liberal elitists want is to totally kill wiretapping program. This is a serious matter.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

Well, it's a serious matter if she get's the entire liberal blogosphere and a major media player against her.  That would be a mistake.  You take things way too far.  You seem to forget she has to get through the primary to make it to the general election.


by bookgrl on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

Again.

Hillary voted against the FISA bill the last time. Against.

That is the position the liberal blogs are supporting. She is on their side.


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

Bet they are going to demand support for a filibuster.


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 06:50:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

That's probably why they are going after Clinton. They know Obama never spends enough time in the Senate to help with something like that. But, I'm sure he'll come out strong:

"I would have fillibustered if I had been there."


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 07:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

He released a statement saying he'd "support" a filibuster. Saw it in a dkos diary.

Don't know if that means from NH ...


by dblhelix on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 08:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

Killing the Illegal Wiretapping is a Good Position. It's and American Position. You may have heard of the Constitution. But I suspect you have the exact same respect for it as Georgie Bush. EXACTLY.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:04:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

She can't. She doesn't. She won't.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have a link? (none / 0)

Guess again!

From TPM.com

"Q: Can you discuss your position on the reauthorization of the FISA bill?

HRC: I am troubled by the concerns that have been raised by the recent legislation reported out of the Intelligence Committee. I haven't seen it so I can't express an opinion about it. But I don't trust the Bush Administration with our civil rights and liberties. So I'm going to study it very hard. As matters stand now, I could not support it and I would support a filibuster absent additional information coming forward that would convince me differently."

Let me guess, your next comment will be, "She's just pandering, damnit!"


by FilbertSF on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:02:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon (none / 0)

She said she would back him, and Obama said he would, too.


by reasonwarrior on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 02:21:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not going to concern troll (none / 0)

Obama's decision to dump $10 million in Iowa ads. That's the business of his campaign. I hope that he uses all the resources that he has to win in Iowa. I don't want to hear any excuses about low information voters choosing Hillary over Obama b/c Obama didn't get his message out or the mainstream media favored Hillary over Obama etc.

Here's a script that Obama could run on in his next ad:

"If you want more of the same, I'm not your candidate. If you're ready for change, I'm your man..."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9pHe2NfQ4kM

Hiring a puppy to appear in his ad might work.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C7wjJyMDUH0

It could waste money as well as give viewers a lot of warm fuzzies just like all of the above ads worked for Michael Steele...

I hope he goes for it!! Time to contribute to the Obama media consultant fund.... LOL!!


by ademption on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:37:29 PM EST

desperate move (none / 0)


In another move that points to the significant degree of coordination among the top liberal blogs on the FISA issue, Green says that the following bloggers will also be directing their readers to call Hillary and Obama's offices and press them on this:

DailyKos, Atrios, OpenLeft, Firedoglake, MyDD, Glenn Greenwald, Crooksandliars, AmericaBlog, Digby, Taylor Marsh
I've checked in with these folks, and virtually all have gotten back to me confirming their involvement.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:39:41 PM EST

desperate move (none / 0)

DailyKos, Atrios, OpenLeft, Firedoglake, MyDD, Glenn Greenwald, Crooksandliars, AmericaBlog, Digby, Taylor Marsh
I've checked in with these folks, and virtually all have gotten back to me confirming their involvement.
Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:40:03 PM EST

Re: Battle of Far away 2nd place (none / 0)

Clinton has the gay vote


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:02:43 PM EST

Re: Battle of Far away 2nd place (1.00 / 1)

Fabulous!


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Battle of Far away 2nd place (2.00 / 1)

Too bad she doesn't have the "win in November 2008" vote.

You Hillary supporters are Kamikaze Democrats.

Oh, and President Dean was kicking way more ass than this...


You've Been Thunderstruck
by ThunderHawk on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:10:42 PM EST

Re: Battle of Far away 2nd place (2.00 / 1)

Re:  Dean kicked "more" ass

I was a Dean supporter in 2003/2004 and know that your statement is incorrect.

According to Gallup:

20-point or greater Gallup polls for any candidate

2003:   0

2007:   8 (so far) for Clinton

http://www.gallup.com/poll/102001/Fifty- Percent-Democrats-Back-Clinton-Latest-Tr ial-Heat.aspx


by georgep on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For the record... (none / 0)

the ads time bought is not in Iowa, but across the early states, and Feb 5th.  In fact, Iowa is the least of the ad time.  Again, you misread the article.  And for the record, this is FACT.


by iamready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:37:16 PM EST

I am glad to hear that (none / 0)

because spending $10 million on ads in Iowa would definitely be overkill and backfire.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 01:37:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: agree w/you on who is for hillary (none / 0)

it kind of outlines on my diary ...."why Hillary..because"


by pate on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 06:42:28 PM EST

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing (1.66 / 3)

Your behavior is very trollish.  We're all Democrats here.  We can and should criticize leading Democratic candidates we disagree with.

What we should not do is be reduced to name-calling.  Let's be adults here.


by FilbertSF on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 08:36:48 PM EST

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing (1.00 / 1)

Actually we are allowed to express our views of the candidates as we please. So screw your troll rating.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:58:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing (none / 0)

I never liked Filberts anyway. What a nut!


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing (2.00 / 1)

Didn't you just say this:

"Troll rated for intentionally calling someone a tool."

Come on man, at least have some consistency here.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing (none / 0)

Consistency with a Hillary Clinton supporter? Surely you jest!


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:06:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Breaking: A dramatic changing (2.00 / 1)

Show me where I have been inconsistent and I will concede. Don't generalize here.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore Rssai (none / 0)

she, not he...


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 09:02:24 PM EST

Hillary Voted for the Iraq War (2.00 / 1)

Let's not forget how Hillary turned her back on progressives and voted for the Iraq War back in October of 2002--in order to better position herself for the presidential election.  Something to be proud of...


by Will Graham on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:25:28 PM EST

Re: Hillary Voted for the Iraq War (none / 0)

When Hillary chooses Sen. Evan Bayh as her VP the "anti-war" Dems will officially be 4 for 4 in nominating national candidates who voted in favor of the Iraq War.

What the hell does the Democratic Party stand for anyway?


by Will Graham on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:38:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Voted for the Iraq War (none / 0)

That is a VERY important question.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What that means is......... (2.00 / 3)

What that means is....

that's how "Out of Touch", how "Disconnected" the Left Wing of the Democratic party is from the majority of democrats.

As you yourself said, 4 for 4.

Rank & file democrats from across america have voted for these candidates because they agree with them.

Mind you. We are not talking about a close contest here. We are talking about huge, massive margins of victory among democratic voters.

Until you people realize that they is more to life, more to being a real democrat, a real american than - PUTTING a Liberal Litmus test, a Purity test on being a real democrat.

Besides, how can you define yourself as the real democrat when moderate mainstream Democrats are a Clear, Unequivocal majority among ALL current elected Democratic Governors & All current elected Democratic Senators.

Howard Dean's 4th place finish is a testament to that. ( this was despite a United Liberal all out support for Dean)

Most americans, most Democrats do not think like you. Until you understand that, you'll always sound like a street protester instead of having the power to decide & implement change thru winning elections.

There is a reason that the likes of Senators Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, Ken Salazar, Diane Feinstein, Mark Pryor, Blance Lincoln, Claire Mccaskill - All ENJOY 65%-80% approval ratings among all Democratic voters in their respective states.

Its Moderate Democrats STUPID!

There's a reason that the likes of Governors Granholm, Brendesen, Vilsack, Napolitano, Beebe, Ritter, Richardson, Freudenthal, Easley, Henry, Doyle,Manchin, Sebellius & Warner - ALL ENJOY 65%-80% Approval ratings among Democratic voters in their respective states.

Its Moderate Democrats STUPID!


by labanman on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 12:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no, many liberals backed Kerry (none / 0)

who was actually much more liberal than Dean if you looked at the overall record.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 01:36:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What that means is......... (none / 0)

Well, your MODERATE DEMOCRATS voted just like Republicans on the most important issue of the day.  That apparently means nothing to you.  It's important to me though.

Look we're not talking about Afghanistan here, which was a war of self-defense.  Iraq was a war of choice (even George Will said so!) and 20 Dems in the Senate saw through Bush's BS and said no.  The Democrats who voted yes, including Hillary Clinton and John Edwards, did so purely out of political opportunism.  That's disgusting to me.


by Will Graham on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 07:45:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Voted for the Iraq War (none / 0)


Try small 'd' democracy.  If 70% of the country wants to go to war to topple a problem dictator and the votes are there in Congress to do it, there's a point where as elected representative you have a duty to not stand in the way.

And serious Democrats at the time didn't disagree with getting rid of Hussein per se.  (Nor does anyone wish him back now.)  They said there was no right to do so (for which the evidence was ambiguous) or they said there was no adequate thinking or planning for Iraq after Hussein was in fact toppled (which was proven correct).

The Democratic Party stands for a country in which the rights in Section 1 of the 14th Amendment are serious and enforced for all.

Now my question to you: are you posing these questions because you can convince someone (hint: selfrighteousness has very low market value), or are they just therapeutic expressions of righteous ego formulated as a political query?


by killjoy on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 03:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Voted for the Iraq War (none / 0)

How could we possibly forget that when it's mentioned 50 times a day on here?


by reasonwarrior on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 02:22:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

An early Gore/Obama ticket: the medicine (none / 0)

needed to cure Gore-bashing and Obama-bashing and to turn this country around.


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 11:44:30 AM EST


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